A quick look at funded trader prop firms
Updated
I hear alot about those and I see alot of ads and get e-mails for certain of those and I am stubborn and refuse to acknowledge the existance of something if they annoy me through ads but I was genuinely curious (that's what they want us to think) because to me "I'm a professional prop trader" sounds alot like "I'm a professional poop sucker".
Is this prop trading really for the experience very good traders? Well from my research no it is not.
You get more funds to trade cool ok, with a regular broker you also get more funds to trade it is called leverage.
You can change the name all you want it's still the same thing.
Either:
1- They let you put your money at risk by requiring you to have a small stake in the whole pot (drawdowns eat up your part of the pot not theirs)
2- They entirely fund the account but actually not really, I explain in the next paragraph
Here is 1 example (this is one of the best reviewed ones the bottom ones are not even worth looking at or yes but just for laughing):
After asking you questions like "what do you plan if you lose 10 in a row", you know this kind of things, and more, and after a demo period of a few weeks or months , they will put you on an account with certain rules. Early on you have more restrictions like smaller max position sizes until you reach a certain profit.
In this example to trade a $25000 account there is a $150 monthly fee and also I think a 150 evaluation fee at the start. There is a trailing drawdown stop of $1500 (6% drawdown), so after a couple months of paying subscriptions and making profit for them their "regular" risk is gone (not the swissie one). They do provide some content, like data feed (I don't remember how much brokers charge for this it's in the same area w/e). So they are not taking all the risk, clients (? what should we call them?) pay to cover the risk.
Another example is really troll. Like I don't even see why they ask traders to write up so much and go through huge courses (no matter who they are even George Soros has to take the course) and then spend months on demo to be "really sure" and then they put you on a 1k account then 10k after 2 green months, then 20k after 2 green months jesus it takes forever to get some size. And the funny part? They expect you to fund part of the account like 20% and that's your drawdown limit basically (not written in any contract I don't think but they'll just cut you off when you run out of your own money). So you take basically all the risk and they keep 30% of the profit. I don't even get why they go through all these double checks...
Most of their risks are with:
- new random traders (they double check these guys but there is only so much they can do)
- some idiot that scalps the swiss franc for 1 point above the floor and blows the whole account
- the typical trash strategy that keeps winning until it does not and then it's the road to zero (the program ends once drawdown is reached)
So the major advantages are:
- access to leverage you get with any broker,
- rogue traders with the discipline of a meth addict get something out of it which are all sorts of restrictions (so... useful for most people actually),
- sometimes access to experienced traders & people that can help you out, depending how autistic they are or not,
- proprietary tools, all sorts of goodies like a chart with the calendar directly on it,
- Some serious capital obviously the biggest one, without the whole risk associated, which also means less stress (still don't get a salary so...),
- also I guess telling clueless people you are a "professional" to help you sell courses & EAS weeell I mean if they have traded with the firm for a few months they have made some money and didn't drawdown 3% or whatever the limit is but doesn't mean they are Jim Chanos of forex most likely they have a trash system that works until it doesn't (not that bad if you stop using it when it drawdowns too much as those firms are doing).
Seeing that some profitable "investors" (over a few months or years at most imo) end up joining the ones that let you take all the risk and charge you for the priviledge really tells that yes an idiot with the rational analytical abilities of a potato can come up with a profitable strategy if he puts the hours in. But trust me, the road will be hard and the individual won't become a "big short" hero or Soros.
Kweku said he knew he wasn't the smartest but he made sure if someone put 1 hour in he'd put 2. He got promoted too fast, they pushed him for more performance, he was afraid of getting deported and then he went full commando and lost billions and got deported to Ghana. Now he give seminars where he whines that bankers are really mean people or something. I don't know what really happened, couldn't he put his foot down? I hate bankers too but I haven't heard bank traders complain only rogue psychopaths at least Nick Leeson or whatshisname Nikkei futures gambler that tried to manipulate the market and "averaged down" (lmao) didn't come up with all these excuses. Reminds me SocGen where I worked (not as a trader) are just so damn annoying with security now, and I read a comm from them where they invested (in hindsight, it's always in hindsight) I don't know how many millions into failsafes and risk management etc. Should have invested way less millions and way earlier than this guys 😬
They won't make you profitable (ok unless what's keeping you from making it is you are a psychopath that can't help it or as they call it "undisciplined"), but you have less risk than if you just went *100 on mex, your risk will be spread over time through the money you made for them and a part of the monthly fees.
It's not that bad but it's not that great either. I didn't go into the full calculations you'd have to check risk over time and so on.
The coolest part is the ease of mind (chf) but I couldn't care less I live in Europe and we got negative balance protection and guarenteed stops haha what a scam for brokers.
Hey actually I already abused that with Oil a few months ago my broker ate the full losses and I got the full win on my other broker.
Wups my bad I'm a retail trader no one told me Oil could go negative (really) I thought I clic then lambo.
It is not crazy either for the company I don't think. All in all both sides get something out of it.
It is better at the start for traders and better as time goes by for the firm in my eyes. They invest time and take most risks at the start, then month after month cash in with less and less risk.
Talking about the ones that aren't complete scams obviously this does not apply to "put 10% in that's your max drawdown" these guys for real? 😆
They have some additional rules, for example you might not need to pay for the data (if you already have it via tradingview for example), oh and if you just afk for several days they fire you (you are allowed to take holidays relax but you have to warn first). I'm not sure but I think those are mostly for day traders. They can't sit with someone for 3 years before knowing if he is good or not so wouldn't make sense otherwise.
This depressing grind is not soon over for me I'm afraid. Slow feedback sow growth. And without any upside. Not a day trader at all but I STILL have to check charts every day and do research all the time oh gosh why oh why I tried to write down a process and use combos of indicators to make it as easy as possible but I STILL have to scan through 40 charts all the time AND set alerts AND not overfocus one 1 strategy then miss out AND check these alerts over and over AND make a full preliminary TA I estimate on average once a day (2 charts a day so it's not that bad) then full TA set entry etc then watch my position over the day I don't just abandon them and if I look away that's when they'll move and need my attention.
10*40 = 400 alerts a year so about 2 a day (not counting the "other" alerts obviously, only the initial part that is really anoying)
Little deviation here xd
Why can't I just press a button and have it do every thing for me?
I don't want to miss anything, I don't want to spend to much time on boring repetitive tasks,
I don't want to forget doing my boring repetitive tasks,
but there is no hope there is no cure there are no tricks.
Grind the charts, grind the account size.
Basically I can make it quite simple I don't need to go draw every level and everything.
So I get 40 signals a month or what? I end up having to TA 40 times a month, mostly false signals.
Opposed to this I just TA everything - 35 charts - the week end, and then not sure if I keep it like this charts get dirty or re-TA.
Damn the result is almost the same. As much work. No way around it I have to TA false signals I thought of 10 other methods it always comes back to the same.
With the alerts first it is better I TA useless things less, but I won't see as much, but I will because when I get an alert I do my TA regardless, and only in one direction not both so I gain something.
I just want to hire a wagecuck intern to do the dumb boring part xd Found a use for these 80 IQS that society left on the side road. Wait no they'll mess it up 100%.
Maybe I can put dancing squirrels shouting motivational orders on my screen to get me through it. Or give myself a reward. Help plz someone I'm desperate this bores me so much.
Ok that's it not going to make a full in depth review either just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.
Is this prop trading really for the experience very good traders? Well from my research no it is not.
You get more funds to trade cool ok, with a regular broker you also get more funds to trade it is called leverage.
You can change the name all you want it's still the same thing.
Either:
1- They let you put your money at risk by requiring you to have a small stake in the whole pot (drawdowns eat up your part of the pot not theirs)
2- They entirely fund the account but actually not really, I explain in the next paragraph
Here is 1 example (this is one of the best reviewed ones the bottom ones are not even worth looking at or yes but just for laughing):
After asking you questions like "what do you plan if you lose 10 in a row", you know this kind of things, and more, and after a demo period of a few weeks or months , they will put you on an account with certain rules. Early on you have more restrictions like smaller max position sizes until you reach a certain profit.
In this example to trade a $25000 account there is a $150 monthly fee and also I think a 150 evaluation fee at the start. There is a trailing drawdown stop of $1500 (6% drawdown), so after a couple months of paying subscriptions and making profit for them their "regular" risk is gone (not the swissie one). They do provide some content, like data feed (I don't remember how much brokers charge for this it's in the same area w/e). So they are not taking all the risk, clients (? what should we call them?) pay to cover the risk.
Another example is really troll. Like I don't even see why they ask traders to write up so much and go through huge courses (no matter who they are even George Soros has to take the course) and then spend months on demo to be "really sure" and then they put you on a 1k account then 10k after 2 green months, then 20k after 2 green months jesus it takes forever to get some size. And the funny part? They expect you to fund part of the account like 20% and that's your drawdown limit basically (not written in any contract I don't think but they'll just cut you off when you run out of your own money). So you take basically all the risk and they keep 30% of the profit. I don't even get why they go through all these double checks...
Most of their risks are with:
- new random traders (they double check these guys but there is only so much they can do)
- some idiot that scalps the swiss franc for 1 point above the floor and blows the whole account
- the typical trash strategy that keeps winning until it does not and then it's the road to zero (the program ends once drawdown is reached)
So the major advantages are:
- access to leverage you get with any broker,
- rogue traders with the discipline of a meth addict get something out of it which are all sorts of restrictions (so... useful for most people actually),
- sometimes access to experienced traders & people that can help you out, depending how autistic they are or not,
- proprietary tools, all sorts of goodies like a chart with the calendar directly on it,
- Some serious capital obviously the biggest one, without the whole risk associated, which also means less stress (still don't get a salary so...),
- also I guess telling clueless people you are a "professional" to help you sell courses & EAS weeell I mean if they have traded with the firm for a few months they have made some money and didn't drawdown 3% or whatever the limit is but doesn't mean they are Jim Chanos of forex most likely they have a trash system that works until it doesn't (not that bad if you stop using it when it drawdowns too much as those firms are doing).
Seeing that some profitable "investors" (over a few months or years at most imo) end up joining the ones that let you take all the risk and charge you for the priviledge really tells that yes an idiot with the rational analytical abilities of a potato can come up with a profitable strategy if he puts the hours in. But trust me, the road will be hard and the individual won't become a "big short" hero or Soros.
Kweku said he knew he wasn't the smartest but he made sure if someone put 1 hour in he'd put 2. He got promoted too fast, they pushed him for more performance, he was afraid of getting deported and then he went full commando and lost billions and got deported to Ghana. Now he give seminars where he whines that bankers are really mean people or something. I don't know what really happened, couldn't he put his foot down? I hate bankers too but I haven't heard bank traders complain only rogue psychopaths at least Nick Leeson or whatshisname Nikkei futures gambler that tried to manipulate the market and "averaged down" (lmao) didn't come up with all these excuses. Reminds me SocGen where I worked (not as a trader) are just so damn annoying with security now, and I read a comm from them where they invested (in hindsight, it's always in hindsight) I don't know how many millions into failsafes and risk management etc. Should have invested way less millions and way earlier than this guys 😬
They won't make you profitable (ok unless what's keeping you from making it is you are a psychopath that can't help it or as they call it "undisciplined"), but you have less risk than if you just went *100 on mex, your risk will be spread over time through the money you made for them and a part of the monthly fees.
It's not that bad but it's not that great either. I didn't go into the full calculations you'd have to check risk over time and so on.
The coolest part is the ease of mind (chf) but I couldn't care less I live in Europe and we got negative balance protection and guarenteed stops haha what a scam for brokers.
Hey actually I already abused that with Oil a few months ago my broker ate the full losses and I got the full win on my other broker.
Wups my bad I'm a retail trader no one told me Oil could go negative (really) I thought I clic then lambo.
It is not crazy either for the company I don't think. All in all both sides get something out of it.
It is better at the start for traders and better as time goes by for the firm in my eyes. They invest time and take most risks at the start, then month after month cash in with less and less risk.
Talking about the ones that aren't complete scams obviously this does not apply to "put 10% in that's your max drawdown" these guys for real? 😆
They have some additional rules, for example you might not need to pay for the data (if you already have it via tradingview for example), oh and if you just afk for several days they fire you (you are allowed to take holidays relax but you have to warn first). I'm not sure but I think those are mostly for day traders. They can't sit with someone for 3 years before knowing if he is good or not so wouldn't make sense otherwise.
This depressing grind is not soon over for me I'm afraid. Slow feedback sow growth. And without any upside. Not a day trader at all but I STILL have to check charts every day and do research all the time oh gosh why oh why I tried to write down a process and use combos of indicators to make it as easy as possible but I STILL have to scan through 40 charts all the time AND set alerts AND not overfocus one 1 strategy then miss out AND check these alerts over and over AND make a full preliminary TA I estimate on average once a day (2 charts a day so it's not that bad) then full TA set entry etc then watch my position over the day I don't just abandon them and if I look away that's when they'll move and need my attention.
10*40 = 400 alerts a year so about 2 a day (not counting the "other" alerts obviously, only the initial part that is really anoying)
Little deviation here xd
Why can't I just press a button and have it do every thing for me?
I don't want to miss anything, I don't want to spend to much time on boring repetitive tasks,
I don't want to forget doing my boring repetitive tasks,
but there is no hope there is no cure there are no tricks.
Grind the charts, grind the account size.
Basically I can make it quite simple I don't need to go draw every level and everything.
So I get 40 signals a month or what? I end up having to TA 40 times a month, mostly false signals.
Opposed to this I just TA everything - 35 charts - the week end, and then not sure if I keep it like this charts get dirty or re-TA.
Damn the result is almost the same. As much work. No way around it I have to TA false signals I thought of 10 other methods it always comes back to the same.
With the alerts first it is better I TA useless things less, but I won't see as much, but I will because when I get an alert I do my TA regardless, and only in one direction not both so I gain something.
I just want to hire a wagecuck intern to do the dumb boring part xd Found a use for these 80 IQS that society left on the side road. Wait no they'll mess it up 100%.
Maybe I can put dancing squirrels shouting motivational orders on my screen to get me through it. Or give myself a reward. Help plz someone I'm desperate this bores me so much.
Ok that's it not going to make a full in depth review either just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.
Note
GG I got my rules.Opening my temple where I teach clean trading mental soon. $5000 course scam.
Only 3 possibilities. Rince and repeat. Quick, simple, no worrying or overthinking.
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